Sunday, March 1, 2009

Come on now.

I'm sorry. But I must speak to this issue that Aaron brought up of government's involvement in gay marriage. I'm very close to disgusted by these views not only of Aaron's, but of those who have commented on it.

Since when was the government's business not the Christian's business?! Since when was the seperation of church and state something that we as God's ambassadors approve of?! Just because we're talking about politics does not mean we drop our crosses! We may have the job as citizens to obey the government, but in a democracy we also have the job of making our views represented in the government. If you wish to argue that the Christian morals in this case intrude on other's "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", then I want to ask you to define these, especially pursuit of happiness. When the Thomas Jefferson penned this, do you really think that he was including sensual pleasure (moreover in a sinful form) in this happiness that the government should protect? And if you say that the culture now should redefine it to mean the "happiness" that today has so prevaded our society, then aren't you and I called to be in the world but not of the world? Since when do we give in to the culture and how it defines our lives? I do not presume your spiritual condition, but if you have a desire to see Christ glorified, then I would define Jefferson's diction differently: I believe that yes, the government does have the duty of protecting our pursuit of happiness, but not happiness defined as pleasure. Happiness defined as Joy. And our Bibles can competently show us where that is to be found. and its decidedly not in homosexuality. I believe that no matter how much pleasureful happiness can be found in homosexuality, it is not the joyful happiness which we as Christian should pursue or encourage others to pursue, namely by allowing gay marriage.


smurferboy said...

All that you have said is true. I do not, nor will ever condone homsexuality. It is a sin. But the fact remains that the Constitution is not a religious text. Even though America may have been founded on a Judeo-Christian worldview, America is a place where wildly different views can be held and expressed freely, without fear of government backlash or retribution. People are allowed to make their own choices about the way they live their lives AS LONG AS THEIR CHOICES DO NOT NEGATIVELY AFFECT THE LIVES OF OTHERS IN REAL, TANGIBLE WAYS. Thus murder, rape, theft, and other forms of misdemeanors are outlawed. Homosexuality is a sin, but you would have to work very hard to prove that it negatively affects society as a whole. What harm would be done to me if my neighbor got married to his boyfriend? While I might disagree with him, it is his own personal choice. The Bible outlaws homosexuality. However, the Constitution is not the Bible. I am not a strong student of the Constitution, but I don't believe that you can, under the laws the Founding Fathers put in place to govern this nation, make an amendment outlawing a person's right to homosexual marriage. And that's my two cents.

smurferboy said...
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connor said...

when you talk politics you can't use the Bile anymore. Because not everyone believes in the Bible. We have freedom of all religeons. So when you want to make laws you go back to the constitution. And you may say, well murder isn't stated in the constitution and neither is stealing so we should be able to do that. But let me ask you, is murder and stealing interfering with someones pursuit off happiness?? Yes if you murder someone they can no longer pursue happiness as a human being. If you steal from a store the owner is losing money and thus interfeing with his pursuit of happiness. And taking away someones LIFE(murder), liberty and pursuit of happiness(stealing) does interfere with the constitution. Now-a-days laws have to be made from sound logic and the constitution, because like I said above not everyone believes in the Bible like us.- connor

-Ya I know basically a restate of aaron's comment, but I wrote this before readin arrons!! We must think alike. Haha

Ashley Elisabeth said...

I'm sorry you find my views disgusting, but I believe that what I said in response to Aaron's post counters your claims. So I don't feel the need to outline my views again in defense.

mike parsons said...

First of all, I said almost disgusting because I don't find your views to be perverse or deceitful. They are understandable views that I believe are not right.

Secondly. Its great and all that you know gay people who are awesome people but...does that make it right? And yes, all of us have fallen short and sinned but...does that mean we shouldn't try to stop it?

Thirdly. Sinning in love? are you serious? I could not stain the name of love with homosexual desires. In a marriage, love is incorporated with sexual desires and thats how God made it to be. But when that desire is used perversely in homosexual relations, there is no love! it is intimacy mixed with wrong pleasureful desire. Don't believe me? read Corinthians.

Lastly. Are we not, as citizens in a democracy, part of the governing body? isn't our responsibility to advocate our position? legally, yes, morally, yes, temperately, too. But why would we willingly allow sin? its the same as alcohol and abortion. ya it happens plentifully throughout our society and is accepted as ok, but does that mean we should support those who allow it? NO! Moreover, it is our responsibility as ambassadors of Christ to label sin as sin and to kill it. Yes we are also called to do it humbly and kindly, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN WE DONT KILL IT! We as part of government are trying to impress our morals on them. call it moral police if you want. Every person who advocates a position is impressing their morals, or lack of. But we as Christians are called to advocate a certain code of morals. Homosexuality may not be killing anyone or even hurting anyone (debatable) but we know from the Bible that it kills their soul! so why allow it? Why should we leave our Bibles home when we go to vote? We should support what we believe in! I hope you would agree. But I believe in Christ and His Word above the Constitution. If you support gay marriage, I want you to tell me why I should put the Constitution before the Bible!

smurferboy said...

First off, Connor you are awesome. Secondly, Mikey, none of us are supporting the idea of gay marriage. What we are saying is that, under the Constitution, we think that gay marriage should be legal. We know that it is wrong, but we cannot use the government to force our ideas on others. That destroys the foundation of American ideals. As Christians, we should do our best as a body to lovingly show homosexuals the error of their ways. But we should do it outside of government control. You said Christians should use the government to force their morals on others. Yet you turn around and scream bloody murder when atheists try to force their morals on you by taking God out of the Pledge, banning prayer in school, and taking God out of public places. Using the government to force a certain group to bend to your will is stupid. It flies in the face of the ideals America is founded on. So, unless you can prove that homosexuality does negatively affect society as a whole in real and tangible ways, then you can make no arguement against a gay marriage amendment to the Constitution. In America, people have a right to live their lives the way they want to, as long as it doesn't harm the lives of others. Do homosexuals harm you? No. So start looking for ways to convert them lovingly to your way of thinking instead of relying on the government to force them to do so.

Ashley Elisabeth said...

Okay: instead of continuing the trend of long, drawn-out arguments, I'm gonna keep this as simple as I can.

The Constitution calls for the separation of church and state does it not?

The only sources you've used to back your claims are religious texts. Those are a part of the church, not the state. They have no influence and no place in our government. If some Muslims decided they wanted to base our laws off the Koran, would you endorse that too?

I understand your desire to cleanse the world of all that is wrong and perverse... but, really, is that your place? There are laws regarding drinking age and drunk driving because those things are potentially harmful, unhealthy or deadly. There were laws against abortion because it is shameless murder.

When has anyone been harmed, robbed of health or been forced into a deadly situation by the marriage of a homosexual couple?

We all have a duty to ourselves to follow God's laws and be obedient Christians. But if we try to force this on others, are we really honoring God?